[Alpha] How to attach both NVMe and Graphics card

userHead figonking 2019-01-11 15:34:16 15693 Views18 Replies
Hi guys,

I would like to use both SSD with NVMe (M.2-2280) and a graphics card like Geforce GTX 1050Ti.
Is it possible?
Please help me find a adapter/or how to setup that fit with this requirement.

Thanks.
2019-04-13 09:31:46
figonking wrote: ↑Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:34 am Hi guys,

I would like to use both SSD with NVMe (M.2-2280) and a graphics card like Geforce GTX 1050Ti.
Is it possible?
Please help me find a adapter/or how to setup that fit with this requirement.

Thanks.
Here's my video that covers a LattePanda Alpha with GPU and NVMe SSD, all powered off one power supply
https://youtu.be/PKwf1SKszTU
userHeadPic Project-SBC
2019-04-07 03:51:33 Here is my review of the adapter including benchmarks and boot times

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owIFL40NQIs
userHeadPic Project-SBC
2019-04-04 02:52:05
andymid wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:08 pm Thanks for that article number, found it in my local ebay store
Will take a while to get here, but will post the results of the installation, together with the revised Xbench disk access speeds, to be able to compare - and if all works well I'll be getting the M-key eGPU adapter and be making a 3D printed case for the eGPU as well, so will also share that on Thingiverse

Cheers!
Andy
I tried out that adapter and posted some info here:
https://www.lattepanda.com/topic-f6t17046.html

I also posted a video of it initially working here:
https://youtu.be/UUT99pgk_Bs
and will post another video with benchmarks and boot times for windows 10 in the next day or so.
userHeadPic Project-SBC
2019-02-26 02:08:43 Thanks for that article number, found it in my local ebay store
Will take a while to get here, but will post the results of the installation, together with the revised Xbench disk access speeds, to be able to compare - and if all works well I'll be getting the M-key eGPU adapter and be making a 3D printed case for the eGPU as well, so will also share that on Thingiverse

Cheers!
Andy
userHeadPic andymid
2019-02-22 20:14:57 First link: also check regular ebay site item 223030383891

(No need to cut a slot on NVMe SSD.)
userHeadPic anonymous
2019-02-22 13:24:04
ccs_hello wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:40 pm Andy,

In theory yes.
About a year ago, I wasn't even aware that NVMe SSD can/may/"that depends" work in a non-x4 configuration, until I tried a specific brand/model
2x NVMe (yes, it was using a controller+firmware designed only for 2x operations) on a key-B slot (had to cut that key-B slot, a different story altogether) can indeed
work in a PCIe 4x slot.

So the real question is: your specific brand/model of the NVMe SSD would work in x1 mode?
This is never seen in any published spec. anywhere so YMMV.

Hi ccs-hello,
I haven't yet managed to find another place for this https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Riser-prolongat ... 2638347252?, except for some suggestions on the same page, but I'm not willing to cut up my new M-key NVMe when an adapter that possible works is available - was hoping to hear from some LPA devs here on whether they think it should work and possible losses, taking in to account the advantages of now being able to use the M-key for the eGPU...
if the theory is yes, then I will probable spend those 25€ to try it out... I don't see why the NVMe SSD shouldn't work in x1 mode, as far as I understand these PCI buses just throttle back available bandwidth when using less channels, but... maybe get the adapter first and wait to see before also getting the M-key eGPU adapter

the alternative is keep the SSD in the M-key, and get an adapter to put eGPU in E-key https://www.amazon.com/NGFF-Express-Ris ... ay&sr=8-18, or https://www.amazon.com/Sintech-PCI-Expr ... ay&sr=8-48, but then will be restricting eGPU to max PCI x1, which is kind of worst case with GTX 1070 that I have spare

Thanks!
Andy
userHeadPic andymid
2019-02-21 21:40:07 Andy,

In theory yes.
About a year ago, I wasn't even aware that NVMe SSD can/may/"that depends" work in a non-x4 configuration, until I tried a specific brand/model
2x NVMe (yes, it was using a controller+firmware designed only for 2x operations) on a key-B slot (had to cut that key-B slot, a different story altogether) can indeed
work in a PCIe 4x slot.

So the real question is: your specific brand/model of the NVMe SSD would work in x1 mode?
This is never seen in any published spec. anywhere so YMMV.
userHeadPic anonymous
2019-02-21 18:02:26
djawho wrote: ↑Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:21 pm for the ssd take a 6gbs (x2) and connect in m.2 E with this https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Riser-prolongat ... 0005.m1851
And for the gpu (with external psu) https://egpu.io/external-gpu-buyers-gui ... -interface
Anyone tried out the first link (M2 E-key to M2 M-key adapter) with a NVMe M2 SSD? This would free the M2 M-key slot for a eGPU.... I don't think there should be much loss using PCI x1 with a SSD..? Much more to be gained using the eGPU in the M-key slot, IMHO? But does the above adapter actually work, to be able to free up the M-key slot!?

(PD I have a WD Black NVMe SSD, already installed in my MacPanda, and a GTX 1070 8Gb spare - right now with my 12-year old 720p TV, I am getting round 20 FPS with Subnautica, just playable, but I will be soon obtaining a 4K TV, so I would expect FPS to plummet...)

Thanks for any comments!

Andy
userHeadPic andymid
2019-02-06 12:08:23 1x PCIE slot is fast enough for folding.
I've done so on a GTX 1060, and got 200+k PPD, vs 320kPPD on the 16x slot.
I'm sure a 1070 or 1080, or RTX card can work as well, but only for Linux.
Windows uses more data, and people have said to lose performance over 1x.

1x PCIE slot is not recommended for gaming, but will work fine for bitcoin mining or folding.
userHeadPic ProDigit
2019-02-06 12:01:50 Using PCIe switch/mux IMO is the last resort. I.e., many bandwidth consumers will have to share (the YT video is a good example of that.)
We pay large sum of money for CORE-M (as opposite to cheapo ATOM) thus there can be few PCIe bus lanes exposed (key-M has 4 and key-E has additional 2.)
Unfortunately until someone make an adapter to extract PCIe x2 bus out, we are currently limited to just get one lane PCIe out.

P.S. key A/E is the first gen M.2 thus the popularity is fading...
userHeadPic anonymous
2019-02-06 09:28:40 One Stop Systems has probably what you're looking for... but I think it will cost way to much for Lattepanda experiment projects.

( https://www.onestopsystems.com )
Just look at this project from "Linus Tech Tips" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDSWO19jcTg&t=955s
userHeadPic Warlock
2019-01-24 21:32:13 Re: the third post, first link....

I was have high hopes it might have the second PCIe lane on its adapter, since the interconnect cable is unusually wide.

After several conversation with the vendor, with picture taken per my request, I can now say 100% the adapter,
as it is, does not have the second PCIe lane.

That does not preclude in the future someone, including that vendor/manufacturer or LattePanda itself will produce a suitable adapter for our beloved Panda Alpha.

I am still trying to provide the "encouragement" to that vendor to "upgrade" its product features. Somehow I think a direct communication between LattePanda and that vendor/mfg might be more helpful.
userHeadPic anonymous
2019-01-24 06:59:23 The M.2 key-M (max 4-lane PCIe) and key-B (max. 2-lane PCIe) are separate buses so max possibility of 4x and 2x M.2 cards.
The current issue is no such 2-lane key-E (to something) adapter exists. "djawho"'s suggestion was very good.
I have never seen that flavor before (and since its PFC is wider such that I felt high hope, until...)
thus I asked the seller. He told me there is no 2nd PCIe lane on key A/E thus not in his adapter.
I exchanged several with him showing the full pinout as well as more literature about there indeed is a second PCIe lane (on 59&61 and 65&67 pins.) That's the end of conversation. I can burn $23 to test it out but what for (even the seller said no.)

Can key-E slot bring a one-lane PCIe out? The answer is yes (several ways but all kind of ugly, if consider how you'll going to power the external PCIe board.)

Re: SATA expander (multiplexer to expand 1 SATA into few such as 5 SATA ports)
There are few solutions, including a straight M.2 flavor (key-B/M if memory serves, but costs more) and several more ugly ones.

So many ways to skin the cat, all depends on what you need and how much willing to pay.
userHeadPic anonymous
2019-01-24 05:58:57 Hi, sorry to barch in with my own questions.
I've been discussing this on this thread: https://egpu.io/forums/expresscard-mpci ... alpha-sbc/

I'm not really interested in raw performance. The M3 cpu can only go so far. So I'm planning to use the E-key (all adapters I've seen are 1x, though 2x would be awesome) with a low end card, so that impact would be minimal (I've explored results shown at egpu.io, check the thread).

E-key adapters aren't too common nor cheap. And the ones that seem most reliable are those soldered. Does anyone have any confirmacion of this working? I've only seen tests using the M-key slot.

I also intend to connect a few SATA3 ssd. Seeing that the board doesn't have a built-in SATA port, I was wondering if it was possible to maybe connect a SATA hub to the M-key (4x should be enough bandwidth for a few SSDs). Has anyone seen a setup like that?

I'm willing to give up on the NVME M-key ssd if this was possible.
Thanks for any help/info.

edit: this is what I mean by "SATA hub" on a M2 port. Hopefully there's one for M2 port. This one would require a M-key to mPCI-e adapter, right?
userHeadPic phinicota
2019-01-21 21:27:26 I think the link djawho provided might be right that can bring both 2 lanes PCIe bus signals out.
Will have to ask the vendor to find out.
userHeadPic anonymous
2019-01-21 05:15:36 @ djawho
On your first link, are you sure that key-A+E to key-M adapter has both PCIe's data bus brought out?
On many of these adapters, I've only seen x1 version coming out, never the x2 version.
userHeadPic anonymous
2019-01-21 04:21:57 for the ssd take a 6gbs (x2) and connect in m.2 E with this https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Riser-prolongat ... 0005.m1851
And for the gpu (with external psu) https://egpu.io/external-gpu-buyers-gui ... -interface
userHeadPic djawho
2019-01-11 16:10:51 It's going to be very ugly and some compromises no matter what.
(Actually, easiest is to get a regular small form factor PC
LP Alpha has Key-M for up to 4 lane PCIe, and key-E for 2-lane PCIe.

A common NVMe uses 4 lanes of PCIe, some can just use 2.
Graphics card uses 16 lanes, but can get by (and test your patient) with 4, 2, and even 1 lane.

Not too much a problem to extract 1 lane PCIe from key-E slot. No one made 2-lane PCIe bus adapter card.

There is a flavor of external PCIe bus mux adapter card which makes one slot into two, three, or four.
Mux cards are full of compromises.

All sorts of compromises. Which one you are willing to take?
userHeadPic anonymous